🎧 Starting a Social Enterprise, Burnout, Career Tips, & more | Changemaker Chat with our founder, Tiyana J
In our latest podcast episode, Tiyana shared a recent interview that she did talking about her journey into the world of social advocacy, starting HCN, and sharing her tips & advice for young Changemakers.
You can listen to the full episode, or read the full transcript below:
Jayde Mialkowski 0:52
Hello everyone. My name is Jayde Mialkowski I’m from Grasslands Social Advocacy, a student-led digital project advocacy project, equipping people and organisations to tell their stories in a digital age. I’m speaking today with Tiyana Jovanovic, who is a PhD candidate with the University of Queensland and Indian Institute of Technologies Delhi’s Academy of Research. Currently, based at UK School of Communication Arts, she has an academic background in sociology, philosophy, and a professional background in media and communications for humanitarian and human rights organisations. Prior to starting a PhD mid 2020, Tiyana founded the Humanitarian Changemakers Network of Brisbane based social enterprises that works with secondary schools and youth groups to catalyse young Australians to engage in the social change space and utilising a passion for solutions focused storytelling for social change. She has The Changing Times newspaper and publishes social change handbooks for young people, and the Changemakers Q&A podcast. Tiyana currently volunteers with a number of organisations and is a member of the Queensland Red Cross Youth Advisory Committee.
So, I thought we’ll get into a hard one. Tell me about your dog, and what is the silliest thing they’ve ever done?
Tiyana Jovanovic
My dog’s name is Rocker. He is a seven year old Jack Russell. I adopted him at the start of 2019. I really wanted a Jack Russell, so I hit up all of the pet rescue centres in southeast Queensland and I was like when you get a Jack Russell, please let me know. I really wanted a Jack Russell. And then I went out and you do a meet and greet to vibe with the dog, and he honestly had no interest in me. Really wanted nothing to do with me, there was no connection there, at least on his behalf, but I was like yes, he’s the one. The silliest thing he’s done was honestly just yesterday, he jumped up onto someone’s bed in my house and got into their leftover KFC and started eating like the KFC chicken bones. Which is obviously not good for a dog to have cooked bones, and then he was like farting really bad. Yeah, he does silly things all the time but that is the most recent one on my mind, and I actually had to kick him out of our room for a while.
Jayde Mialkowski 3:15
And they’re like who did that, that wasn’t me? (laughs)
Tiyana Jovanovic
I love Jack Russells, they’re amazing. I love them because they have the personality of a big dog, but a small, compact dog wants to pick them up and they’re like, please.
Jayde Mialkowski 3:36
And you’re like, no, I must carry you around like a baby (laughs). Alright, now onto the real stuff. Do you remember the first moment when you decided to pursue the field of social advocacy – what was the driving force behind that moment?
Tiyana Jovanovic 3:50
I think I do actually. I would have been probably 15 or 16. And at the time I was a youth member with Girl Guide Australia, and I was also a Junior Leader at the time. I was working on my Queens Guide Award, which is kind of like the peak awards that you can do within the organisation. There’s a lot involved, you do several hours of community service, leadership training, all of these different things and one part of it is your focus. And I didn’t really know what I wanted my focus to be. I was kind of just a typical angsty 15-year-old girl who didn’t want to listen to anyone. I didn’t care what my mum had to say. Didn’t want to listen to teachers. Didn’t really know what I was doing.
And then I got a bunch of resources out, and one of them was a book – it was all about the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scout global action beam, which was essentially the global organisation’s response to the Millennium Development Goals (MDG).
This would have been back a few years, maybe around 2010 when we still had the MDGs, and not the Sustainable Development Goals, which we have now. But I was basically just reading this book and it was all about how leaders within the organisation can teach young women and girls all about these big issues, like eradicating poverty, achieving universal primary education, promoting gender equality, sustainability. I still remember reading it like late one night in my bed, and it was kind of this pivotal moment where I just realised that there’s so much more out there going on in the world than my little 15-year-old life. I went to a Catholic all girls school and, it was who’s like through and who’s doing what and who’s wearing what and who’s going to what party on the weekend?
It was kind of like the biggest thing that was going on in my life, and then all of a sudden I just kind of realised there’s actually so much out there. But I think what this book really did was show me that there was actually so much that even I could do. And so, I decided that the Millennium Development Goals would kind of be my focus for my Queens Guide Awards.
Over the next few years, the last few years of class, so, while I was working on my same side award, I ran an advocacy campaign and raised money for UNICEF, I taught all the girls within the district that I volunteered with all about these different issues and in doing so, I learned a lot about them, and then that kind of just, I don’t know, it really motivated me and inspired me to kind of pursue, I knew I wanted to pursue something within that field. When I finished high school, but then I ended up taking a year off after high school just to make sure that if I was going to go to uni and study something, it was going to be the right thing for me. I’m really glad I did because, honestly, I would have studied something completely different than what I ended up doing. And, yeah, it definitely led me down the right path.
Jayde Mialkowski 6:47
I think it’s amazing because I remember being 15, a long time ago – but your world does feel very small and often you feel really powerless in it. You feel like your parents control a lot of what you do, where you go and dictate what you do. I think that’s really impressive for a teenager to do because it’s quite hard to see the world outside of our little bubbles. Do you remember why you started volunteering in the first place?
Tiyana Jovanovic 7:18
I started with Girl Guides Australia and I joined as a six year old. I was like a really shy kid with anyone who knows me, now would really struggle to believe, but I was very shy, very timid like, to the point where, in grade one, I remember – the teacher was like asking questions and nobody put their hands up, so she asked me to answer – and I just burst into tears. Just the pressure of having to answer the question and it was something so simple like, “What was the most exciting thing you did on the weekend?” and like, little six year old self just burst into tears. And so, someone suggested to my mom – oh, like my daughter does Girl Guides, and I think it would be really good to see all this confidence and self-esteem, and kind of help come out of her shell a little bit, which it definitely did.
Now my mom would argue that I probably need to go back a little bit. But yeah, I always enjoyed it. I love that it kind of gave me an opportunity to learn about all these different things that I was never able to learn about through school, and obviously I made so many friends and then by the time I was like, 14, I think, which is when you’re old enough to kind of become like a Junior Leader, I was kind of at the point where I, what I didn’t want to leave the organisation, but I felt it was kind of time for me to move on – because a lot of my friends that I made over the years had left and gone on to do other things. And so, I decided that I wanted to become a Junior Leader, which meant that at the time I was assisting the actual qualified adult leaders to run the weekly meetings and stuff like that, which basically just prepared me to then become a qualified adult leader once I turned 18.
Jayde Mialkowski:
That’s a huge process, you were there for a long time. Were you volunteering, I think I was looking at a profile you had – a couple of other places you were volunteering with in your teenage years as well?
Tiyana Jovanovic 9:13
I did a lot of volunteering through Girl Guides Australia. And because part of my Queens award involves a lot of community service, so there was a lot of stuff that I was doing like that, but through the organisation and it was organised by them.
Jayde Mialkowski 9:40
It’s hard as a teenager to know where you can go and have places to do so, because teenagers have that stereotype, so it’s really good of them. And obviously, you still want to work with youth and education – do you think you’ve always wanted to work with youth? Or do you think you might want to work with older people later on – how do you see yourself actually thinking about that?
Tiyana Jovanovic 9:57
When I was younger, when people asked me, like what do you want to be when you grow up? I think until about the age of like 13 or 14, I always said that I wanted to be a teacher. I don’t really know why I said that I think it was just because I love to learn, I love to learn as a kid, and I think, because the only environment that you really learn within when you’re that young is in like a structured school environment, but I just thought that the logical next step was probably for me to become a teacher.
And in my own way I kind of have always kind of been a teacher, through a lot of the volunteering and stuff that I’ve done. It’s just been less formal forms of education. But even when I was like a Junior Leader with Girl Guides, a lot of the parents who were teachers or the teacher aides, always came up – “You know you should really think about becoming a teacher, when you finish we need more teachers like you, you’re so passionate, blah blah blah.”
And I remember feeling so bad when I was like 15 or 16, I was starting to think that I didn’t actually want to study teaching and become a teacher but I wanted to do something else. But yeah, through the work that I do with HCM and some of the other organisations that I’ve volunteered with. I’ve always really enjoyed teaching young people through a less formal education format – so teaching them through workshops and kind of fun activities where they don’t realise that learning something because they’re enjoying it so much. But with the humanitarian changemakers network, as an organisation, it is kind of targeted towards young people.
We don’t kind of say youth in the strict sense that it’s like 15 to 25 or 15 to 30 year olds, but I was thinking about that the other day because I was born in 1996, which means I’m the last year to be considered a millennial, and I was just thinking about, at what point will I no longer be considered a young person? Because I’m technically not part of like Gen Zed, but I feel like I identify with Gen Zed maybe a little bit more than millennials, I don’t know – millennials just seem that a little bit older.
Jayde Mialkowski
I was born in ninety two, so it’s like I’m in the younger end of the millennials and there are much older millennials that have been set up with a house and kids and you know, they’re very far ahead and many are in their late 30s, early 40s. So, you’re a little bit younger and you’ve grown up with more technology instead of the more Gen Z stuff, you’re sort of in that weird area – and maybe it’s easier to connect with them in that way?
Tiyana Jovanovic
Yeah. And I think because most of the people that I do work with tend to be in that Gen Zed. I always wonder at what point. Like am I going to outgrow my organisation? Because I say like, when made like we’re an organisation of young changemakers for young changemakers. At what point will I no longer be a young change. Like I’m already 25 to 30, and it just makes me think like it’s still such a young organisation, but at what point am I going to need to pass the leadership responsibilities on to someone else? Because I don’t want to be like that older person going into like for young people going in, “Hey kids,” – and you’re like in your 30s. So, I can see that cut off.
Jayde Mialkowski 13:23
Tell me, how did you start the organisation? That’s a huge process, I can’t even imagine it. Was that difficult, with lots of highs and lows? It must be more established now, but the beginning must have been chaotic.
Tiyana Jovanovic
Honestly, it wasn’t too bad in the beginning, only because I didn’t start it with the intention of it becoming what it is now. So, in the beginning, it would have been around 2019, and I was getting invited to a few different schools and organisations to talk with young people, just about what social change is and how they can get involved in the social change space. And from there, I developed a framework that would allow me to easily communicate what social change is, and how young people can bring it about – just to kind of make these workshops easier for me.
And so, I developed this framework and I had a personal blog at a time and I just wrote about the framework on there. And then when I went to different events or hosted workshops, the groups that were about a specialised topic, I’d maybe create like a special resource or two for them and just put it on this blog that we kind of let them learn about it a little bit more, and then I kind of started getting a lot of really positive feedback, and I kind of thought that maybe this could be something that’s a little bit bigger than just me. And so, I decided to create a new separate blog and I didn’t know what to call it and I don’t know how I came up with the name, humanitarian changemakers network, but I somehow came up with that name, and the domain was available and I was like okay I’m just going to make an Instagram page.
In the beginning it was just a blog where I was still going around running these workshops and kind of sharing resources, and then the more young people I began to speak to, I noticed what some of the gaps were and some of the things that were kind of stopping them from engaging in the social change space and for a lot of them it was kind of this really dismal media landscape that was dominated by fake news and kind of negative stories about all the problems in the world – and it was leaving them feeling kind of helpless about everything.
So, I was like, okay, maybe something we need to start doing is just providing some more positive or solution focused news stories. And so now, as we kind of begin to grow, we’re switching our focus from just running workshops, which isn’t super scalable and also not super good for me when I’m trying to do a PhD, running these workshops because it does kind of take a lot to actually organise them – and because every workshop is tailored to the specific group or school or whatever that we work with. So, we’re kind of now trying to reach a wider audience of young people by diving deep and using our podcast and the unused platform to kind of explore potential solutions to different problems and letting young people know the ways that they can kind of engage in addressing local or global challenges.
Jayde Mialkowski
I’ve read your profile even just you talking about this – how do you juggle everything? I’ve been through your Instagram, Youtube and everything and it’s like, there’s so much. When do you sleep?
Tiyana Jovanovic 16:50
Surprisingly I actually sleep really well now and I get a good seven to eight hours a night. But it wasn’t always like that. And I’ve definitely had to kind of learn how to overcome the burnout culture that I think is so prevalent in the social change base. I mean we already kind of live in a culture where burnout is kind of normalised and there’s not really a culture of care. It’s a very hustle based culture. And I think that’s kind of amplified in the world of social change because there’s this extra level of guilt, because a lot of the time. It’s not about you, it’s not about you progressing your career or doing things for yourself, it’s about you doing what you think is right, what you’re morally compelled to do or you know helping others or serving others and so you feel guilty when you take a break, or you decide that you’re not going to go to that particular process because you need to work to pay rent, or whatever it might be.
And I think it was that kind of guilt that led me to burn out, which would have been around the time I started HCM. And since then, I’ve really had to learn how to just kind of create a culture of care in my life, and balance everything. But with that said, I mean I do a lot. And I’ll be the first to admit that I do a lot and potentially take on too much, but all of the things that I do are things that I genuinely love, and the time it doesn’t feel like work. Like a lot of the volunteers that I do. Like, it’s just something that I’m really passionate about and so it doesn’t really feel like work to me. Even the stuff I do for HCM most of the time, unless it’s boring like admin stuff – to me, recording a podcast episode and answering young people’s questions about particular topics is something I genuinely enjoy and so it doesn’t feel like work to me.
Jayde Mialkowski
I think that’s the big secret they always tell us growing up – find something you love. It’s really impressive if people find it and it does take a long time to get that and then to balance that with your own personal life, and so it’s good that you’ve now found that balance. If you had to give advice to a younger person dealing with burnout in this sort of field, would it just be about creating that culture of care or is there something more specific you would recommend?
Tiyana Jovanovic 19:09
I think a big thing for me was the realisation that you don’t need to justify, right. I always felt if I was going to take a break, I needed to somehow justify and say well okay like, “I’ve got all of these things ticked off my to do list today, so now I’m entitled to a break,” and I’d be like, “okay, if I take a break now, it means that I’m going to be so much more effective at working tomorrow,” when in reality, like, you don’t need to justify. You know, we kind of just set these limitations and these standards on ourselves. And once we realise that there’s no one judging us for wanting to watch Netflix in the afternoon instead of some volunteer work, then I think it makes it so much easier to just realise that it’s okay. And all like so many benefits to actually taking care of yourself. But that shouldn’t be the reason you do it.
Jayde Mialkowski. 20:01
You’re accountable to yourself.
Tiyana Jovanovic
Yeah that mindset shift for me was the biggest thing and learning how to just kind of create a culture of care and rest more and not put so much pressure on myself, and not feeling guilty for wanting to prioritise self-care. And I think that’s not just within the social advocacy field or social change, I think a lot of people do that. “I’ll take a minute to myself, but I need to tell everyone why I’m doing it,”. You are accountable to yourself, you can take time to yourself and I think that’s really important.
Jayde Mialkowski 20:35
You mentioned before about your travels, and I’ve seen a lot of your travel pics – it looks fun, but also, while you’re over there, do you ever engage in other modes of social change? Have you ever learned anything over there about the way people engage in that field and you’ve taken it on board?
Tiyana Jovanovic
The first two international trips I took, the first one was the one that got me into trouble in the first place. I went to a conference back in 2013, when I was 17. I got invited to this conference because of some of the advocacy work that I’ve done for my Queenside award, and when I went over there, like, to me the fact that it was in Hong Kong was like an inconvenience because then then I had to like pay money for a flight and I have to go out of my way, and I’ve never travelled I’m really nervous about it.
But it was more just the fact that I was getting to meet other young people that were actually interested in social change and social advocacy, which is not something that I’d found yet. But I went to this conference, and I noticed a lot of the speakers were saying that I can see that you’re all like a really passionate group of young people, but my advice is that if you want to change the world you have to experience success. And then he spoke about the importance of just travelling and immersing yourself in other cultures and all that stuff and I was like “Okay, this guy knows his stuff, so he says I need to travel.” And I was already planning on taking that year off after high school – and so I was like okay, it’s going to be my goal to just travel as much as I can while I’m at university. I thought by the time I finished university, I’ll be done with travel, and I’ll be done with university.
Except travel is like a drug – the more you do it the more you want to. But then after that, the next trip I did was one that I did through the Welsh Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts to one of their centres in Sangamon India, and they have a whole bunch of different partner organisations that they work with on an ongoing basis. And so, I went over that to work on a project, because I was really passionate about art and drama, and I was going to study at university, that’s what I thought I was going to study. And then I didn’t end up studying, but I went over to help begin a project where we use performing art to create these performances that people who were a part of this organisation would perform in different slum communities about family violence and violence towards women. And I worked on that project, and I’m really glad that I did that.
And then I’m also really glad I didn’t do volunteer tourism, because if I hadn’t learnt about the negative impacts of volunteer tourism, I probably would have been really inclined to go and do one of those trips where you kind of like paid to volunteer and they tend to be more exploitative and exist kind of more as a business for the artists to profit from, then they are actually about creating positive social impact. But yeah I don’t know how, I think I just read an article about it or something and then I kind of explored it more and I learned about volunteer terrorism and that’s not to say that all volunteer tourism is bad but generally, as a whole. If you’re doing any kind of volunteer work where it’s short term, and you don’t need any kind of specialised skills or qualifications for, then the work is probably either not needed, or it could be done by locals who could actually get paid to do it – as opposed to you paying a big company or organisation to go over and do the work for them. You hear so many horror stories about orphan tourism, places where you know you go build a school and then a week after you’re done, they come and knock it down, or something like that. I think another reason that I didn’t do any of that kind of travel was also just because I simply couldn’t afford it.
I was a poor 18 year old, and I just moved out of home and I was like “Okay, how am I going to pay rent and travel and do everything that I want to do?” So, I mostly just backpacked around. And even now, I’m a little bit older and my budget isn’t as tight, I still tend to just stay in hostels. I think it’s the best way to meet people and you can meet people from all over the world, even if you go to a backpackers hostel somewhere like Adelaide. But I think that’s the beauty of it, and just meeting new people and realising that you know, people come from all different backgrounds and they have different views that you might have, you know, all these different things. But I think the one thing that I noticed is at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how different we all were, at our core, we’re all kind of the same. I think, people, when you strip away all of the negative things, most people are kind, compassionate and we all want the best for our community. So, I think travelling definitely taught me a lot of really important lessons.
Jayde Mialkowski 25:50
I mean, that must be hard with COVID and everything being locked down. We can go to New Zealand, does that count? (laughs). But I mean hopefully it comes back and you can keep going.
So, about your book as well – when did you decide that you wanted to write one and put it out in the wild? You self published it, didn’t you?
Tiyana Jovanovic
I think the idea for it kind of came during COVID, when I wasn’t able to run any of the workshops that I was previously running and I was trying to think of ways that I could still reach young people and teach them the framework for social change. And I kind of thought that maybe a book would be the best way to do that, because I thought about putting together an online course, because I just felt like I had so much to say, and the only way I can say it all is if I just write it all out in a book.
I was like “Okay, I’m gonna give this a shot,”. I say that it took me about six months to write it, but I think it took me about five and a half months of planning it, and then two weeks of just me sitting out and like smashing the writing, I just started in my own head, I always do try and plan things and make them perfect – but in reality I knew everything that I needed.
This is the kind of stuff that I’ve been teaching in these workshops that I’ve been learning about for most of my adult life, and so I took myself on a writing retreat, and went on to like Groupon, and I found like a really nice result and I was like okay, and just spend five days here, five days with no WiFi. I just sat down and wrote, and I got my first full draft written in five days. And then I looked at all of my different options and I decided that self publishing would be the best just because I want all of the money from the sales of the book to go back into funding to humanitarian changemakers network, because that’s always been kind of like the biggest struggle that I’ve found over the years is actually trying to fund it.
Jayde Mialkowski 28:18
I know you’ve got, was it four or five people working with you at the moment?
Tiyana Jovanovic 28:23
We have a few. Most people are on a volunteer basis. I don’t get paid, but we have one team member who is incredible and I wouldn’t be able to do it without him, but he’s actually paid.
Jayde Mialkowski 28:39
That’s exciting!
Tiyana Jovanovic
It is exciting! Yeah, that’s a step. I actually met him when I was running a workshop for his school, it would have been back in 2019, and he hosted a mental health podcast, a really good podcast and he asked if he could interview me for his podcast, and I said yes. After the interview, I was kind of thinking of starting the humanitarian changemakers, and turning it into this thing beyond me, and he said, “Yeah you should do that, it sounds really great, go for it!”. He fully hyped me up, and so he’s literally like been there from the beginning. He was one of my first ever writers, and now he’s studying journalism, so that is really good. And even though once we kind of started getting recurring revenue. I was like “Okay, what am I going to do with this? What’s the biggest priority?”. And to me,, obviously I’ve done so much volunteering over the years, but I’ve also think that good people doing good work and being financially compensated for it is important, and something that I’ve never wanted to do is rely too heavily on people volunteering. And so I was like, it’s really important to me to be able to pay him, and so I was like, even if I can barely afford it. I think that’s a big step, and maybe down the line, you know, it’ll become more of that.
Jayde Mialkowski:
On a sadder note, what do you think is the biggest mistake you’ve ever made? And how did you find yourself handling it?
Tiyana Jovanovic 30:46
I think perhaps the biggest mistake I probably made in all aspects of my life is probably just overthinking things and thinking that everything needs to be perfectly planned out before you actually start. I think this is something that I’m much better at now. And something that I kind of learned about in this book is called The Lean Startup method and it’s mostly for people running businesses or startups, and it’s about needing to fail.
You obviously need to fail so many times before you find the right idea or the right business. And this book is kind of about testing your idea and failing quickly and doing that over and over again so that you can get to where you need to be faster. And I think that that’s applicable for kind of all aspects of social change, and whether it’s running a business or running an advocacy or an activism campaign or whatever it might be, even if it’s just figuring out what to study or what kind of path you want to go down – the best way to figure it out, is to actually engage in things and get hands on – rather than just thinking about them, so you can figure out what works for you or what doesn’t work for you fast and then move on to the next.
Jayde Mialkowski 32:07
I think failure is that thing that everyone’s really terrified of – you know that you fail once and that’s it – you know it’s like you can never re-approach something and it’s not really a great mindset. I guess you maybe have to separate your ego from it – like, “It’s okay for me to fail, this doesn’t represent me,”.You just can’t get good at something until you suck at it and not looking at it as failure. You’ve succeeded in figuring out what doesn’t work for you, or what isn’t the right option for you. And so if you look at it like that, well, it is a success because you know exactly what not to do. I think that’s a really good way to look at it. In contrast, okay what do you think has been your proudest moment? I know there’s probably a lot!
Tiyana Jovanovic 33:01
There’s a good thing. I think one of my proudest moments is actually probably getting into my PhD. Yeah, I was always like I was always kind of studious in high school until I got to about that kind of 15/16 mark where I just lost all interest in school, and didn’t really care. I didn’t even know if I was gonna go to university, and I think people assumed that I was always really good at uni and that lI got sixes or sevens, but I didn’t. My GPA wasn’t great. And that’s partly because I didn’t really apply myself to university, as well as I could have, I kind of prioritised other things – like doing all my volunteering and stuff – which I certainly don’t regret, but I didn’t have the best GPA for me to get into an honours programme.
I did two bachelor’s degrees. I did a Bachelor of Global Studies and then a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology and Philosophy – and philosophy was the only thing that I was actually really really good at, and I’d never got anything less than a distinction on an assignment or anything in philosophy. So, I just went to like the head of philosophy at the University and I said, “Look, I know my overall GPA is not great, but I’m really good at philosophy. Do you think you can let me do an honours?”
And he said yes, and I’ll sign off on it – so that’s how I got in my honours programme in the first place. And then, if I’m being completely honest, 2019 just for me personally, it was a bit shitty and not a good year for me. So much happened at the end of the year, and I had like four weeks to go and I had hardly any of my thesis written, and I had to break my lease and move out.
I had nowhere to go, but luckily my grandma was overseas in Serbia, which is where she’s from, and I just called her up and I was like, “can I please stay in your house and just finish my honours thesis?”
And she said yes, so I went and stayed there and for four weeks straight, just wrote out this thing. I don’t know how I did it, but I think I just scraped through and was on the bare minimum that you can use to get into a PhD programme, and honestly even that surprised me – I didn’t think I was going to do it. I think the only thing that saved me was the fact that you do a little bit of coursework as well and I’d done my coursework at the start of the year and I did okay. So I just had the grades to get into a PhD programme. And I honestly wasn’t even going to apply for the one that I’m currently in. I remember looking at it and I was like that was amazing, but there’s no way that I’m qualified enough for that.
My friend was like “Just do it anyway, it’ll be good practice,” – and I was like okay, I’m going to try it. And I was honestly surprised when I got in. I cried, and I’d say that’s probably one of my proudest moments.
Jayde Mialkowski 36:27
How long have you got to go on it?
Tiyana Jovanovic 36:30
I just talked my confirmation for a third of the way through. It won’t be long, you know it’s gonna go quickly, it always does. The first year kind of flew by – I felt like I actually started to realise it’s not just about my PhD but about everything. I think you think that there’ll be a point in your life where you feel like you know what you’re doing – and I just like I always felt like at uni, that if I ever did like a masters or a PhD like that would be the point where I really know what I’m doing. The same when I started humanitarian changemakers, and I was like there’ll be a point where I feel I know what I’m doing. And I don’t think I’m ever going to get to that point, I don’t think I’m ever going to get to the point where I actually feel I know what I’m doing, and that’s okay, I think I’ve learned to just embrace the unknown. I think it’s a bit of an illusion.
Jayde Mialkowski 37:30
It’s like being an adult – you never really feel like an adult, you just are an adult. If you could give any advice to someone wanting to follow in your footsteps, or even just starting the kind of work that you’re doing or wanting to make a difference – what would be the biggest thing you can tell them?
Tiyana Jovanovic 37:43
I guess, one piece of advice I always like to give is that idea that clarity comes from engaging in things and thinking about things. You can spend all day thinking about what kind of jobs might be suited towards you or what kind of career path, or what you might want to study or what kind of volunteering role might be good for you, but like the only way you’re really going to know is if you actually get out there and do it. That whole idea of if you’re going to fail, get out there, fail quickly and move on to the next thing.
Another thing in terms of careers, one thing that I think I’ve always done without actually realising that I’ve done it – people always asked me when you’re younger, what do you want to be when you grow up? And when you start uni people are okay, like what do you want to be when you finish your degree? But the one thing I’ve never done focused on a particular role that I’ve wanted to have or any kind of identity. I’ve always just focused on doing what I enjoy doing. And if you focus on doing the things that you love and all the things that you’ve put out, and the things that you enjoy, the right kind of roles and opportunities will find you. And just figuring out what it is that you enjoy and what it is that you’re good at and focusing on doing those things as opposed to being a certain kind of someone. And I think the rest will kind of just fall into place.
Jayde Mialkowski 39:06
I think there comes a point even with study, with a lot of people do their degrees and then realise that’s it’s not actually right for them – and getting out into the field and realising that firsthand, it’s okay that it didn’t work out, you’re learning something from that process, even if it costs you few years, and a little bit of money. I think it’s a really good message to take home.
